Burgundian Ordonnance vs Nikophorian Byzantine - posted by Josh Barton, 5 September 2020

This week the Burgundians went up against an a-historical opponent in Raymond's Nikophorian Byzantines. This is an interesting list, and one that's even smaller than mine!

Raymond's army is mostly Cav(S) and Bw(X), but with two artillery and two kn(X) in double wedges. A very elite list, but one that I imagine can collapse pretty quickly. Going into the game I wasn't really certain on my plan, but I figured that Knights would generally get the better of Cav(S), and my longbowmen would make up for the difference in numbers. I'd moved the longbow into the artillery command for this game to make them less liable to disappear with the knights.

Raymond took a gentle hill and nicely got it in the middle of his line and put his bw(X) and artillery on top of it. I put my pike opposite the hill, but I definitely didn't want to attack it. However with 4 art(O) I was fairly confident that I could persuade the bw(X) off it if needed. Beyond that he placed two small commands of Cav(S) on his left flank facing my knights, and one command facing the artillery and bowmen.

The burgundians got the first turn and began moving the light horse up to give the knights the first charge. The longbow also began to reposition to help shore up the knight charge, while the artillery began their slow trundle toward the hill.

Raymond repositioned his third cavalry command, running it behind the hill and reinforcing his other two cav commands facing the knights. The cav(S) unsurpsingly got the best of the light horse, killing one and pushing the other three away. However, this gave 8 knights a clear charge against the cav(S), with a kn(S) general in there as well!

In the gendarmes charged... and lost every single combat, so failed to kill any of the cav(S). The cav counter-charged and killed one knight, but were mostly pushed back by the rest of the line. The light horse plugged the gap and again the knights charged, this time with a few overlaps.... and lost every single combat. Again. The light horse also died, allowing the cav(S) to work the flanks and quickly break the knight command without any losses.

Elsewhere the Burgundian guns killed one of the roman artillery pieces, and also began pushing back the Bw(X), but it was slow going.

The knights broke just as the longbow arrived and the blade detatched from the pike. At this point the Romans has lost one element - the artillery, and had taken out a full 1/3 of the Burgundian army.

However, the longbowmen decided to earn their pay in an ideal, target-rich environment and immediately killed a general. This was followed up by two more bases of cavalry who were working their way through the now shattered knights and breaking the command!

The blade also held up surprisingly well, refusing to go down to overlaps, shooting or anything else. I did screw up and let 3 elements of pike get hard flanked. Not a good move, but by this point I had basically admitted defeat.

The cavalry got into the longbow and killed a couple of them, but lost a few more as well. Elsewhere the artillery took out a Bw(X) and a light horse, further emboldening the remaining Burgundians. However, they were only 4 ME away from breaking and, with 2 generals in combat it was only a matter of time...

Both generals fought well, and I think the longbow did enough to dishearten a command, but it was always going to be a long-shot and a hard-flank on the blade general took the win for the Byzantines.

Another week, another fun, if frustrating game. Raymond played well, negating the impact of my artillery by simply walking away from it. However, I can't help but continue my obsession with the knights' failure. Given the massed ranks of the cavalry I didn't expect them to win overall, but I'd expected roughly a 1-1 trade given my quick kills. Instead the entire command failed to kill a single element and broke.

I'm going to look at cutting down on the number of knights in the army. Unfortunately it probably means replacing them with Bw(S) for the earlier list, and I really didn't want to have another 'English' army in the Burgundians. Honestly though the knights have been the first command to break in all 5 games, and I think they've killed 2 Bd(O), 1 Ps(S), 1 Bd(X) and that's it. Not a good haul for 12 ap units! 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/824840264342234/permalink/1602530356573217

Artillery and Bw(X) on a hill. The ideal circumstance!

The light horse lead the attack

The Burgundian deployment. The column of Kn was to allow me to redeploy them if I needed to

uuuh the best picture I got of the Byzantines. sorry!

The first line of byzantine cavalry attack the light horse

but the knights are right behind them, ready to punish the Byzant cavalry!

meanwhile the Foot just take pop-shots at each other. Hell they're not paid enough so why should they go in?

Meanwhile the knights fail their first charge, leaving a nice line for a follow up

The longbow getting into position, while the reinforcing cavalry shore up the Byzant lines. They wouldn't be needed though!

The first gap appears in the Burgundian lines, just next to Charles

a bigger view - the Byzant reinforcements are there, and the gap in the knight line is getting bigger

It's all over for the knights, flanked and failing to kill anything. Worthless nobles

Thankfully the longbow are here, ready to cause havoc!

the longbow break up to concentrate their fire, and kill a general and several cav(S). Immediately earning their pay, and showing up the over-paid knights fleeing in the background. Their flank is horrifically exposed though

The lonbow line gets broken up, only the generals are holding, and if either of them die it's all over for the Burgundians

and it ends. Interestingly those double knight wedges are dead men - but having to follow up with knights, I stopped them from fleeing!

out of position picture of the inbred posh-boys failing to achieve anything

Dirk Heinsius

Sell the knights and buy new figures 

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• Josh Barton

  

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  you want them? I am planning on cutting them down and adding more longbowmen though. I just don't want to turn this into an 'English lite' army

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• Dirk Heinsius

  Josh Barton

   they do have a bit of a bad reputation. BTW I’ve put those Old Glory knights in with my Romans so that I don’t forget them

  

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• Allen Yaxley

  dont do it it Josh. There is always knight after day. 

  

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• Josh Barton

  

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  Allen Yaxley

   haha I won't. I just might look at replacing them with a few other troops for a bit

  

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Vincent Cholewa

Thanks for posting, I always enjoy your reports. I know you changed your dice but your run of bad luck with the knights is of Charles the Bold proportions 

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• Josh Barton

  

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  thanks Vince, I should probably emphasise that I'm getting luck elsewhere, it's just I've set the army up to rely on the knights to deliver the main punch 

  

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John Garvey

It’s always going to be hard with the OTA though. How did Barker describe them? “The ultimate wargamer’s army”. Charles cherry picks a whole bunch of favourite troops, but ends up with something that is diverse but just isn’t good enough at any one thing to be viable? Like if there was elephants, he’d have taken elephants?

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• Josh Barton

  

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  That's true, it is a bit of hodge-podge, but I'm finding all of the foot elements are working okay - the bw (o and s) and the artillery in particular are generally doing a good job of breaking up and softening up opponents. The light horse and ps both have roles to play (and a cheap!) and the pike as a counter-punch are doing okay (when I don't misuse them).

  The idea was to focus on the knights - hence why I've got 8 of them (96 AP, 131 with the general!). The Bw and art are designed to weaken an enemy and the pike to plug gaps/counter charge. But I just need the punch of the knight to work!

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John Garvey

I’d focus on a single force in the army (say the knights) and get rid, or reduce, anything that doesn’t support the single objective of sticking the knights into something that will hurt as quickly as possible. Admittedly it won’t work with every opponent. I’m very surprised you lost against the Cv(S). I wouldn’t say it was the knights fault. My experience with knights with my Nikephorians is that my Cv basically disappear!

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• Josh Barton

  

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  I think it's just luck with the knights.

  I'm working on a re-work but it's the later option with lots of pike O, so it's a very different army!

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  Allen Yaxley

  I would consider spitting the knights between two commands. To easy to react to knights in one command by concentrating required troops to counter them. Spread your options and your opposite needs to counter it twice over.

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  • Josh Barton

    

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    hmm that's an idea - I might play around with it. Thanks!

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  • Alastair Donald

    Another thought, FWIW, is to keep the Kn back and use them as a reserve or second punch, working off the shoulders of your other troops. That way you choose where to put them in, you’ve tied down much of your enemy’s force with your other troops and yo… 

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  • Josh Barton

    

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    Alastair Donald

     agreed. I didn't mention it in the report, but I forgot that Pk were factor 4 vs Cav until Vince mentioned it after the game. If I'd remembered that I would have put the pike 2 deep and wider. Given the width I still would have had to u… 

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  • Gerard Lelieveld

    I agree with 

    Alastair Donald

     Ive got my WTR organised like that. Hang back three smallish groups of knights to counter attack a gap that appears in bw or bd?

    

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