Sunday, 13 June 2021

What size game and table? Posted by Peter Dunn, 8 June 2021

New here. Can I check the standard size for games - AP-wise - and table size.
Is it 400AP and 8’ x 6’ for 28mm?

 https://www.facebook.com/groups/824840264342234/permalink/1821477458011838/


Vincent Cholewa
Admin
As our backs age, there is a move to 8’ x 5’ tables!
400 AP is my strong preference and usually the default in competitions. However, 450 AP is not uncommon for friendly games and some competitions have a 450 AP option.
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  • Bruce Ferguson
    I think you are in the minority Vince. Other than Easter I've been forced to play possibly only one game of 400p over the past year and that was at CTA which was supposedly 400ap competition but I still played 3 450ap games
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  • Vincent Cholewa
    Admin
    Bruce Ferguson I have not played any 450AP games for a long time. I have 450AP lists for most of my armies but don’t use them.
Alastair Donald
450 AP for me. If you’re going to invest that much money in the toy soldiers, you may as well put as many as you can on the table.
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  • Vincent Cholewa
    Admin
    Alastair Donald and when I play against medieval armies with Bd(S), Bw(S) and all that, I insist on 400 AP!
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  • Alastair Donald
    Manipulator! You and your 2AP troop types. ‘Enery VII has ridden into a blancmange of Libyans, penile sheaths flying left and right as he and his bodyguard hacked their way through them. Such squealing!
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  • Vincent Cholewa
    Admin
    Alastair Donald and never ignore the weather rules when you play archery armies! 🌬 🌧
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  • John van den Hoeven
    450AP for me too preferably.
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  • Vincent Cholewa
    Admin
    Alastair Donald have I ever told you I am as fond or Reg Bw(S) as I am of Illinois Nazis?!
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  • Neil Williamson
    Alastair Donald with that argument shouldn't you be playing 500ap?
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  • John van den Hoeven
    Now that's an idea 🤔
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  • Alastair Donald
    Happy to, and have in the past. Tends to smother the gimmicks that found their way into the army lists.
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  • Alastair Donald
    Well, I’d use Spartans if the damn rules weren’t broken, but no one’s fixed that, so it’s BdS and BwS. It’s your own fault.
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  • Alastair Donald
    Especially since you’re a Roman lover.
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  • Alastair Donald
    Anyway, i thought Romans and Illinois nazis were the same thing. 😜
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  • Zoe Hill
    Alastair Donald What have the Spartans ever done for us?
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  • Alastair Donald
    Saved western civilisation from asiatic gold ring pierced despots - “Give them nothing - take from them everything!"


  • Andrew Jarman
    Some people prefer different AP totals as it favours their chosen armies. There are lots of lists at 400 AP that bring nothing extra at 500 AP and some armies are just not viable at 400 AP or lower.
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    • Dirk Heinsius
      Andrew Jarman My Middle Imperial Romans definitely prefer 450 but my Libyan Egyptians are great at 400 but get really screwed at 450
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  • Peter Dunn
    Author
    Thanks for the replies.
    Is there much interest in the Wellington region in 15mm DBMM?
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    • Josh Barton
      Doesn't seem to be played at the moment. I keep thinking it's a good idea for people's backs (smaller tables)
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    • Vincent Cholewa
      Admin
      Peter Dunn the 15mm armies are still there. David Kinzett and I played a few games when we both lived in Wairarapa. I think it would just take someone to organise games and start using 15mm again.
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    • Gary Lewis
      No interest in 15mm for me, 28mm and 450AP all the way!
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    • Andrew Bennetts
      Peter Dunn DBMM was designed with ‘default settings’ of 400AP on 6 foot x 4 foot tables for 15mm figures, with suggested adjustments for different scales and AP totals.
      For 28mm, 6x4 scales up to 9x6 but the convenience of putting two 6x4 tables side by side led to 8x6 becoming the standard 28mm table size.
      However the ergonomics of 6 foot depth for aging backs has led to 8x5 tables becoming increasingly common.
      Compared to the original design, 450AP on an 8x5 represents a 12% increase in army size played on 25% less area and this does change the balance of the game.
      Which you prefer often comes down to army preference and playing style.
      Fastmoving, agile armies that want to create a weak point with manoeuvre before closing (such as those with numbers of cavalry and light horse) are disadvantaged with the smaller table/bigger army setup as there is less space to use.
      Conversely, slower moving and/or clumsy armies (such as those favouring heavy foot and knights) find the smaller table/bigger army arrangement to their advantage as it is easier to cover flanks and force an opponent to fight frontally.
      In terms of getting results, smaller tables definitely speed things up by allowing the action to start sooner. That said, at 450AP there are 12.5% more troops to move and 12.5% more combats to resolve and this can make getting a decisive outcome in 3.5-4 hours a challenge (so more draws).
      Personally, I’m not that fussed by table size but, given the choice, I prefer 400AP as I believe it makes a wider selection of armies viable, particularly on 8x5 sized tables.
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    • Dirk Heinsius
      Peter Dunn I have 1 15mm army, which I travel with, and I’m always happy to use.
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    • Peter Dunn
      Author
      Personally while I have 3 28mm DBMM based armies, I have 15+ 15mm armies and it seems a shame not to use them. Once I'm up to spec on the rules I would be keen to break the 15mm armies out
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    • Vincent Cholewa
      Admin
      Peter Dunn I would be happy to play 👍
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    • Alastair Duncan
      In more civized times apostate were burned at the stake for such heresies using 15mm matchstick to light the fir



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