Is that an overlap? Asked by Neil Williamson, 16 August 2021

Overlaps on combat support rule query.

At the Winter Cup in my game against Peter Dunn it became clear that Peter was being told different ways of playing this situation.

So in the interest of us all playing consistently, I posted the query to the UK DBMM forum which I've copied below.

Quote

At a recent tournament in NZ I found that players play this situation differently.

If an element is in front edge combat and not overlapped, but an element behind providing rear support is overlapped, is there a -1 combat factor adjustment?

LawrenceG1

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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2021, 06:57:05 AM »

Quote

No.

But an enemy front edge in contact with a supporting element's flank counts as a flank contact on the front element.

End of quote

Short and sweet answer. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/824840264342234/posts/1870803446412572/

Peter Dunn

TBF to me there Neil....we asked the Umpire and that was his ruling.

But interesting to know that there are dissenting views. Are we happy that the UK DBMM is correct or can we Big Leibowski it?

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  Neil Williamson

  It's not a complaint Peter. I just remember being told different things when I was learning and just want to make sure there is no confusion.

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  • Peter Dunn

    Neil Williamson I didn't think you were complaining...rather that i was following an umpire's decision....and that there is a variance we should resolve (as you are doing)

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    Neil Williamson

    Peter Dunn Glad to hear we are on the same page

  Vincent Cholewa

  Admin

  The rules say an element contacted on the flank turns to face the enemy, "except that when an element which could in some bounds provide rear support to friends now in frontal combat is contacted to flank, this is treated as a contact on the friend's flank."

  To me that means the element fighting at the front gets -1 and would be quick killed if it lost.

  The logic would be that the depth of bases is much greater than the depth of a fighting formation would be if accurately represented on the ground scale.

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  • Peter Dunn

    Vincent Cholewa Does "contact" in this case mean front edge contact by the contacting element?

    In this specific case the contact was side edge to side edge

    

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  • Peter Dunn

    Vincent Cholewa

    

    

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  • Peter Dunn

    Kn has side contact with rear support Wb....do you apply -1 to the combat involving the Wb it is supporting?

    

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    Vincent Cholewa

    Admin

    Peter Dunn the short answer is, no. This part of the rules is about flank contact. Edge to edge is overlap but not flank contact.

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  • Peter Dunn

    Vincent Cholewa but surely this counts as overlap

    

    

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  • Peter Dunn

    The question is if the Kn(f) on right moves forward to follow up does it remove the overlap on the front Wb(F) given it is receiving support from the rear Wb(F). The pursuing Kn(F) maintains same "contacts" with supporting element.

    Neil (and UK DBMM) says no to the Wb being overlapped. The Umpire (and one other observer in earlier game) say yes.

    I'm unsure....but would like to remove splinters from my rear

    

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    Vincent Cholewa

    Admin

    Peter Dunn if the Kn moves forward and is no longer in edge to edge contact with the front Wb, then it is no longer an overlap.

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  • Peter Dunn

    So what Neil said 

    

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    Vincent Cholewa

    Admin

    Peter Dunn Neil Williamson is a cunning opponent!

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    Neil Williamson

    Yay, its in writing. I'll show my wife, she never believes I'm right.
• Dirk Heinsius

  Vincent Cholewa personally I’ve always gone with if a second rank is overlapped (side edge to side edge contact), AND is supporting the front rank then the overlaps counts, if it’s not supporting the front rank then no overlap.

  

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    Neil Williamson

    Dirk Heinsius, several people seem to play it this way, but it is not how the rules are written. Hence we get situations that Peter was experiencing being told one way to play by one player and another by another player.

    

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    Vincent Cholewa

    Admin

    Dirk Heinsius what Neil Williamson said.