First Crusade - posted by James Trotman, 22 August 2020

The First Crusade - I'm hoping to pick the brains of the hive-mind here. I'm working on an army for the first crusade (1096 -1099) and trying to work out what minis to use. I have some warriors and huscarls from the late Dark Ages ( late Saxons/Anglo-Danes - the kind of armour and weapons you would see at the Battle of Hastings) and I'm curious as to whether these would fit with the period. Most people I've talked to have recommended using Norman infantry which makes sense as this was after the Norman conquest. Did William disenfranchise or kill everyone who fought against him? Or would he have simply asked these lords to surrender and swear loyalty to him? And we're only talking a time difference of 30 years - could there be warriors who fought alongside Harold Godwinson as youngsters taking up the cross in the holy land using the same armour and weapons they used against the Normans? Or am I just being silly? Most reference material I've found concentrates on the knightly orders and the like - can anyone point me in the direction of reference material for the "noble and his retinue" type of army/warband? I would really appreciate it. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/824840264342234/permalink/1589856634507256/

Vincent Cholewa

For a “toy soldier” reference I would recommend this.

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• James Trotman

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  Vincent Cholewa

   thanks 

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• Ted Snodgrass

  James Trotman

   I have a copy of this book if you want to borrow it. I will bring it to the Masterton Marauders if you want to drop in and grab it.

  

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• James Trotman

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  Ted Snodgrass

   that's awesome, thanks 

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Vincent Cholewa

For an excellent history, including social background in Europe, I recommend this

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• James Trotman

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  Vincent Cholewa

   excellent, thank you 

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• Vincent Cholewa

  

  Pic from the Osprey Elite series “The Crusades”

  

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• Vincent Cholewa

  

  Frankish knight c.1097 from Ian Heath’s book

  

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• Vincent Cholewa

  

  Also from Ian Heath’s book

  

  

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• Alix Barclay

  Norman minis from the era you're talking about should be fine. It's a bit trickier making a case for more Saxon or Dane style models. Many of the 'warrior caste' were either killed or sidelined by the Normans. Crusading is expensive and if you've just lost your rank and land then it's hard to afford it. Those that ingratiate themselves with the new regime are likely to appear similar to them, equipment-wise. The Byzantine Varangians are the interesting exception as, by the first crusade, they were extensively Dane or Saxon in origin and likely kept some equipment and weapons.

  

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  • James Trotman

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    Alix Barclay

     thanks - that is some good points to consider 

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  • Andrew Crampton

    Due to the cost of arms and armour I suspect the mid level soldiers and more provincial ones could well have Anglo-Saxon gear. Wooden and cloth stuff would change faster so maybe using Norman shields

    

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  • Alix Barclay

    Yeah, that's true. The more disposable stuff like helmets and shields would move with the times and mail is mail so I'd suggest at our scale the appearance would be pretty Norman.

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• Tim Kings-Lynne

  I use all my Normans for early crusaders... Visually work pretty well. Add a unit of family/gang logo toting Tabard Knights and it will look pretty crusadey  for the most part guys in mail with spears and swords will work well

  

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• Dirk Heinsius

  I agree with the points raised above, Norman minis would definitely fit the bill, but I would steer away from Saxon styles, unless provided with Norman arms and armour. Following the conquest the Saxons were very much disenfranchised, until the eventual blend of Saxon and Norman into “English”.

  

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  • James Trotman

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    Dirk Heinsius

     thanks Dirk - it's not a period of history I'm that familiar with so these comments are really helpful 

    

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  • Alix Barclay

    Thinking of the disenfranchised, I remember reading about Saxons who fought at Hastings, then exiled themselves and fought as mercenaries. Some ended up fighting Bohemond's Normans for the Byzantine Empire.

    

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  • James Trotman

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    Alix Barclay

     that's a story worth looking up 

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Kevin O'Kane

The situation is very clearly outlined in the Doomesday Book. Who held this land prior to the conquest? Who holds it now?

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