Sunday, 30 April 2023

ValleyCon: Thoughts about Thracians - posted by Vince Cholewa, 26 April 2023

 You can tell it was an excellent ValleyCon at the weekend because it has got me thinking, pondering and plotting. The credit for that goes to Allen Yaxley for organising and running the DBMM competition so well. You did a great job, Allen, thank you.

This post is not a report of my four games at ValleyCon, which will come later. Instead, this is thoughts about Thracians. A couple of months ago I took my Thracian army out of my toy soldiers’ China cabinet – I rotate my armies, using one for about six months to a year, then using another. The Thracians have played six games this time round, the last four at the weekend at ValleyCon, and four games in two days is a great way to focus the mind.
And my thoughts? I am happy with the tweak I made to my list, replacing the 11 horse archers (Irr LH(F)) I previously used as a separate command with 11 javelin-armed light horse (Irr LH(O)). That worked well. What needs changing are two parts of my tactical approach and I have a question mark beside a third.
First, don’t flank march unless absolutely necessary. The army’s strength is there is so much of it (104 morale equivalents (ME)) in 400 points and most of it is nimble. I have flank marched in three games and now realise having those troops off the table took away from my advantage in numbers. None of the three flank marches provided any useful advantage, and two of them didn’t even arrive!
Secondly, the nobles (Irr Kn(I) in wedge) are not like “proper” knights and should seldom lead an attack. Importantly, they add a good number of ME and staying power to the King’s command and to the army but they are decidedly vulnerable when rolling low combat dice. Twice they proved that at ValleyCon, one game when attacking a smaller group of Iranian nobles (Irr Kn(F)) and in a second after chasing a smaller group of horse archers (LH(F)) into rough ground. Both times three elements of Thracian nobles were doubled and destroyed taking out no Iranians and only one horse archer!
The question mark is about Xenophon, who leads the Greek mercenary command of hoplites and peltasts (all Reg, Sp(O) and Ps(S)). Historically, Greek hoplite generals fought in the front – that was just the totally expected style of heroic leadership. I have been doing that in games but am not sure this is good thing. Twice at ValleyCon Xenophon could not be doubled in a straight-up fight but could be if there was an overlap on one flank. The lines closed, an overlap happened, then Xenophon copped 6-1 against ordinary cavalry and 6-1 against ordinary pikes, dead both times. The odds of that happening are low but the consequences are dreadful. He may have to be, unhistorically, in the rear.
At ValleyCon I won one, lost one and had a winning draw and a losing draw. It occurred to me as I thought, pondered and plotted, my win was the only game where I neither flank marched my light horse command nor attacked with the nobles. The light horse forced my opponent to commit troops and PIPs to go wide and stop a possible envelopment. Those were troops and PIPs that could not be used to go forward. The nobles moved to a flank and drew the cluster of elephants away. Neither the elephants nor my nobles fought as there were plenty of his and my troops between them. But that was okay because the elephants were not attacking my hoplites, who, without having to worry about being stomped by elephants, won the game for me.
In the winning draw I got a bit lucky when I attacked ordinary cavalry with the nobles – none of the nobles were doubled in the first round of close combat. In following rounds as our lines intermingled, my wedges not being able to be overlapped began to give me an advantage. Later, I realised the light horse command that I had held as a reserve added greatly to that advantage and without it I would probably not have broken my opponent’s cavalry command. My light horse sub-general used his PIPs to feed more and more light horse into the fight to threaten a flank, plug gaps and exploit overlaps. He couldn’t have done that if he was flank marching.
See you at the DBMM Nationals and hopefully these thoughts about Thracians will prove useful! Andrew Bennetts is running the Nationals, June 3-4 at St Brendan’s School, Upper Hutt, Andrew.bennetts@mw.com https://www.facebook.com/.../8248.../posts/2301900653302847/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/824840264342234/posts/2338617806297798/

King Seuthes II

Nobles, Irr Kn(I) in wedge

Xenophon

An excellent reference

Book 1, list 48

400 points of Thracians boxed to travel

  • Kelly Gay
    Interesting, thanks Vincent Cholewa
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    • Vincent Cholewa
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      Kelly Gay you’re welcome 😊
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    • Kelly Gay
      Made me want to think more deeply about my armies, and then sank into depression as I don't have an opponent! Tragic!
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      • Vincent Cholewa
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        I saw the FB page for the Cromwell Wargaming Group you have set up. Good on you, I hope the group is a great success 👍
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  • Russell Briant
    Wasn’t Xenophon a cavalry expert and didn’t one of his sons die in a cavalry skirmish? Can you put the Phons on an equis and be happier he becomes a back seat driver of his Mercs?
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    • Vincent Cholewa
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      Russell Briant a good idea, thank you. I had to refer to Phil, book 2, list 5. It says, the CnC of an entirely mercenary expedition shall be Reg Sp(O) and a sub-general of said expedition may be Reg Cv(O). An allied general can be “of the allied contingent’s list’s specified C-in-C or so b-general.” Food for thought 🤔
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    • Vincent Cholewa
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      Xenophon goes from Sp(O) to Cv(O) +3AP, add 1 x Ps(I) +1AP = 4AP. One less LH(O) -4AP.
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  • Andrew Crampton
    Nice thoughtful review.
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  • Rex Hurley
    My question to you, if you didnt get 6/1ed but instead did the reverse would you still be considering putting Xenophon in the back with his tail between his legs?? I suggest not so therefore shold you therefore do so based on two roll results?
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    • Vincent Cholewa
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      Rex Hurley a good question. I think what I am doing is comparing the risk and possible benefits. In these cases that is the cost of losing a general compared to the benefit of doubling an element of Cv(O) or Pk(O).
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      • Russell Briant
        Vincent Cholewa also foot generals have a tendency to get locked in combat, particularly if must follow up, then increasing PIP expenditure. And being Sp he’s not getting any quick kills to clear his front.
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      • Vincent Cholewa
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        Russell Briant sadly, Sp don’t quick kill anything, though against the right opponents their good factors and creating overlaps leads to gradual and then accelerating doubling of enemy elements. Luckily, regular spear have the option to hold or follow … 
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    • John Edmundson
      Rex Hurley In my experience those particular rolls have an impeccable sense of timing.
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    • Russell Briant
      I’m always gob smacked about how many players flank march.
      I think about it then invariably go yeah nah. I want my toys ON the table….
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  • Rex Hurley
    My other question/suggestion , being a Thracian army, perhaps you need to start chanting "Spartacus, Spartacus..." as you go to roll the bones 🤣🤣
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    • Haha
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    • Vincent Cholewa
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      Rex Hurley Thrace eventually become the biggest recruiting area for early imperial Roman auxiliaries. As the auxiliaries completed their service, they and their sons became citizens. Those sons became one of the largest contingents in the Praetorian gu… 
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    • Rex Hurley
      Pay me enough and I will do anything 😎
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  • Alastair Donald
    I have learnt not to put my Spartan RegSpS generals in the front rank. In earlier DBM versions it was viable, but with the Sp vulnerability in their own bound (they don't count the Superior rating and many enemies quick-kill Sp) the generals die with regularity. It's not worth the loss. Now, if the general's name is 'Enry VII and he's a RegKnS then that's another matter...
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    • Vincent Cholewa
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      Alastair Donald I have thought about Russell Briant’s comment and reworked the command so while Xenophon might not have a kingdom he does now have a horse
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      • Rex Hurley
        Vincent Cholewa yet in theory he trooped around with his fellow hoplite mercenaries ending up on the wrong side of the civil war...ahh the twist of rules quirks versus representing some history 🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃


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