DBMM Nationals: Thracians vs New Kingdom Egyptians, and some musings about my list - posted by Vince Cholewa, 9 June 2023

Some musings from the DBBM Nationals on Saturday and Sunday, King’s Birthday weekend, and a game report. Many thanks to Andrew Bennetts for running an excellent competition, to my four opponents and to everyone who played and came along to watch – gentlemen all.

I used 400AP of Thracians in the ancient group (up to 1070 AD, with medieval being post-1070 AD) and played all my games on 8’x 5’ tables. I had made some minor tweaks to my list since ValleyCon and hoped to do better than the 48/100 I scored there. I did, 59/100, but not as well as I had hoped.

Before the Nationals I was worried about how my army would cope against superior cavalry. By the end I was all too-well aware the problem is against both superior and ordinary cavalry. After some discussion, thank you Andrew in particular, the next iteration of my list will see the nobles morph from Irr Kn(I) in wedge to Irr CV(O).

My four games were, Thracians, 400 BC, vs:

· Grant Brown, New Kingdom Egyptians, draw, 12-13

· David Wright, Syracusan, draw, 11-14

· Peter Williamson, Cham, win 25-0

· Andrew Bennetts, Andalusian, draw 11-14.

Thracians vs New Kingdom Egyptians (Grant Brown, thank you )

In the picture, I have had my first bound and Grant is allocating the PIP dice for his first bound. It shows the terrain well.

I defended and decided my best option was to try for as open terrain as possible to try to outflank the Egyptians on one or both sides. I used small terrain pieces to limit where Grant could place the two difficult hills he chose, and he also had a road. The terrain part of my plan worked and the only difficult hill Grant could place was on my right, on my side of the table.

On my right I deployed my light horse command (Irr LH(O)), next to them was Xenophon (Reg Cv(O)) with the mercenary hoplites (Reg Sp(O)) and peltasts (Reg Ps(S)). Behind them was the King with nobles (Irr Kn(I) wedge), peltasts (Irr Ps(S)) a few slingers (Irr Ps(O)) and a couple of light horse. On the left was a mixed command of light horse, peltasts (Irr Ax(S) and Ps(S)) and a few archers (Irr Ps(O).

On my left, my auxiliary peltasts would screen the Egyptian chariots (Reg Cv(S)) and my archers would screen the Egyptian bowmen and swordsmen (all Reg, Bw(I) and Bd(F)), allowing the light horse to go around and exploit flanks. Importantly, Grant also had three Cv(O) chariots on this flank, I think they were irregular. Xenophon’s peltasts would screen and disrupt the swordsmen in front of them so the hoplites could fight them with overlaps.

On my right, the light horse command would draw the Egyptian chariots away (there were fewer chariots on this flank), so the King could use his nobles and peltasts to attack the Libyan warband (Irr Wb(F)).

As we played the game, on my left, the auxiliary peltasts were able to mostly tie down the Cv(S) chariots but suffered some casualties, but the combination of Cv(O) chariots and bowmen was enough to prevent my light horse getting around the flank.

The Thracian and Greek psiloi peltasts performed well against the swordsmen. Quite a few of the peltasts were spent but they and the hoplites were driving back the swordsmen, who took a few casualties. The Libyans were badly mauled by the King’s command, which also had psiloi peltasts spent and took a few casualties. Over time, a gap was forced between the swordsmen and Libyans. Could I exploit it?

On my right, Grant countered my light horse with Cv(S) chariots and archers (Ps(O)). Here, the difficult hill Grant had placed played an important role. My group of light horse retiring in front of the chariots fell back onto the hill. With the reduced move, the chariots had to come close to reach the light horse on the hill but the light horse could leave the hill with a normal move making plenty of opportunities for hard flanks. A smaller group of light horse continued around and took on the archers, and a single element snuck off the hill back towards the centre, threatening the flank and rear of the chariots. The chariots withdrew.

All this took time, and lots of bounds – both Grant and I had come to play, and the game timed out. There were impressive numbers of elements removed on both sides: most of mine were spent psiloi and enough others to be a little over 10%; most of Grants were ½ ME warband and archers with a few swordsmen, a little below 20%; 13-12 to Grant as the invader. No, I did not have time to exploit the gap between the Libyans and swordsmen and no chariots were harmed bringing you this game. And those last few words were my challenge, how to deal with cavalry? 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/824840264342234/posts/2368901763269402/

I have had my first bound and Grant is allocating the PIP dice for his first bound. It shows the terrain well.

Thracian back story

The Cv(O) chariots on Grant's right flank (my left).

• • • • 
        Russell Briant

        Top contributor

        When you say you fought all games on 8’x 5’ tables, I had the sense one table in the hall became Thrace and you played there 3 (but maybe 4 games)….

        ….possession is 9/10ths and all that

        Looking forward to the remaining games

        Russell (the man who suggested Xenophon

        hand in his hoplon and hop on a horse - while avoiding the opprobrium of Al the Laconian)

        

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          Vincent Cholewa

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          Russell Briant thank you, Xenophon the horseman proved a significantly better option than Xenophon the hoplite. I'll blame you the next time I see Al the Spartan!

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      • Joon Nak Choi

        Isn't this the issue with the Thracians. CV and Bd make it hard. You need the punch from KnIw but they are countered by Cv.

        

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          Vincent Cholewa

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          Joon Nak Choi the paper, scissors, rock of DBMM 

          I have found Bd (O), (F) and (I) easier to deal with than Cv. Usually if I can't beat Bd, then I can screen them for much of the game and I end up with spent Ps. I am finding the Kn(I) wedges are a decidedly fragile punch that dies 2ME at a time too often 

          

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          • Joon Nak Choi

            Vincent CholewaUndoubtedly so, yes

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