Which is the first list to have artillery? Asked by Vince Cholewa, 27 August 2025

A question from a lunchtime conversation: which is the first army list to have artillery? None of us involved was sure: some reckoned one of the Greek lists and I suggested maybe Chinese. Does anyone actually know?

https://www.facebook.com/groups/824840264342234/posts/3024771531015752/ 

Barry Norris

As far as I can tell the earliest artillery available is in 480BC in the Warring States Chinese list (Bk2/4).

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Vincent Cholewa

Author

Admin

All-star contributor

Many thanks Barry. Another one for the Sinophiles 

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Russell Briant

Top contributor

I’ve mislaid my book 1. None of those Chinese list use artillery?

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Barry Norris

Russell Briant Not as far as I can tell. In book 1 the Early Carthaginians can have artillery but not until 390BC.

• 19h
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Andrew Jarman

Barry Norris Syracuse are documented as using torsion artillery in 399BCE.

• 18h
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Barry Norris

Noice. But still beaten by the Chinese 

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John Edmundson

Rising contributor

Russell Briant The last Book 1 Chinese list is Spring and Autumn and Westerm Chou. It ends where Warring States begins (480BC) and it doesn't include artillery.

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Rob Shirley

A three-quarter scale working version of the black powder multishot exists in Central Hawkes Bay. Had a great day a couple of years ago playing with that and other siege machines.